Hello and Welcome to Inventors helping Inventors. I am your host Alan Beckley the inventor of the Wonder Wallet. Every week I interview successful inventors asking them the questions you want to know. Tune in to learn from the experts so you can get your invention out of the tank and into the bank.
Rob Kessler: So, looking back it's like the best marketing story ever but it was totally true. I got married on the beach in Jamaica 7 years ago almost this week, almost to the day. I got married on the beach in Jamaica. I've never really liked wearing a tie so when we decided to get married I had my no shoes on, my toes were in the sand, and a tieless dress shirt.
Alan Beckley: Welcome to episode 68 I interview Rob Kessler. Rob Kessler came from a family of entrepreneurs and real estate was always a passion even from a young age. At just 23 he got his real estate license and began selling, by the age of 26 he had risen to the top 5% of salespeople in the largest real estate firm in Wisconsin, First Weber Group.
Later Rob built a screen printing and embroidery business from a spare bedroom in his house to over 1 million dollars in revenue before selling the company. Although NEWD clothing company, NEWD stands for nothing else will do, was never intended to be a screen printing company. Word soon spread about the high quality, great pricing, and his "never miss a deadline" guarantee. But his entrepreneurial Ferber soon took him in a new direction when a wedding day debacle led him to his first ah-ha inventor moment.
Never a fan of coats and ties Rob and his bride had planned their perfect wedding on a beach in romantic Jamaica. There was Rob with his bare feet in the sand wearing a freshly pressed tieless shirt. What could possibly go wrong? But when his dress shirt wilted in the tropical humidity he experienced extreme frustration from tugging at his brand new, freshly pressed shirt all day long but still left his shirt looking sloppy on the biggest day of his life.
Kessler discovered that the sloppy, crumbled shirt problem lied not with the collar itself but rather with the upper portion of the front of the shirt, an area called the placket in the shirt industry.
Kessler vowed to fix the placket problem, he got his hands on every dress shirt he could in his quest to fix what his company dubbed packetitis. An affliction that no one is immune to no matter if his shirt is $20 or $200. Placketitis is the sinking, wrinkling, and folding of the placket of the casually worn dress shirt. 3 years of RND and ruining nearly 100 shirts is what it took to patent and perfect the universal design of his invention, The Million Dollar Collar.
Today the Million Dollar Collar sells all over the world. Now men everywhere can wear dress shirts confidently without ties and have the perfect look thanks to the Million Dollar Collar. Now let's get right to our interview with Rob Kessler.
Well Rob Kessler it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast with us today.
Rob: Thank you, looking forward to it.
Alan: I want to start with a kind of interesting question, that is can you tell us something interesting about yourself that most people don't know?
Rob: Interesting about myself. I'm the third, I'm Robert Richard Kessler III, although I did meet a guy the other day who is the ninth so he really took the cake on that one. That was pretty crazy. I was the BMX state champion in 1986 in my age group in Wisconsin.
Alan: Wow, 1986 so BMX state champion. What is that event?
Rob: So little dirt bikes, pedal it was with jumps and all that stuff, race against 8 people at a time. I think it was, I was probably 7 or 8 years old when I won that and I had only been racing for 2 or 3 years. I'm very competitive.
Alan: I was just going to say you're very competitive. So one question I like to ask everybody and this is what did you do before you became an inventor? Can you tell us a little bit about your back story and how you became to the point of becoming an inventor?
Rob: Well, I've actually always kind of tinkered with things and I think the reason that I was able to is because I was a pretty bad kid in the fact that I was always goofing around and I would typically break things that I probably shouldn't break. Instead of getting caught, I would try to fix it before I got caught. I learned quickly how things worked and I was able to put things back together and tried to get out of getting in trouble for breaking things.
Alan: There's a couple of interesting points there that resonate with almost every guest that I interview. Even as a child they did something that made them stand out from others in a creative, tinkering kind of way. Like the DNA for becoming an inventor seems to be set in early for so many inventors as a child. In your case, it was to try to get yourself out of trouble. Nonetheless, you enjoyed tinkering and also that you had to bent to like and enjoy fixing things.
My second point is I discovered probably not till I was in college that most people are not like you and me by that I mean the inventor mindset where if something is broken you think I wonder what I could do to fix it. Most people are not like that. Most people say something is broken, on to the next. It just took me a while to realize maybe 10% of us really think in the tinkering mindset and looking at something and thinking about how it could be done better.
Rob: Yeah, absolutely I think that's exactly how my mind works. If I sit in a car or I am using something in life and it just doesn't seem to be ergonomically done well or it just doesn't make sense to me. I think it would work so much better it was like this or like that. My mind kind of works in a way that I can see different things used in a different way. I've had a couple of other invention ideas that I haven't gone anywhere with but I'm able to look at two or three things and see how they might work together even though they work individually on their own.
Alan: Right, which I think is so much the essence of inventing. I also wanted to ask you if you can once again paint a little bit more of your backstory. Where did you go to school? What did you do when you first started your career? How did that lead up to becoming an inventor? If you could share that with our audience.
Rob: Yeah, totally. So I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. My parents got divorced when I was in 4th grade which ended my BMXing career because there were 3 of us and my Dad wanted to be able to spend time with all the kids and racing always took up the weekend. I moved around to a bunch of different schools during the divorce and all that so I was always having to meet people and get into the circle and have friends at different schools. I think I went to 4 or 5 different schools growing up. I ended up going to Shorewood High School and then onto the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
While I was finishing I got the best job of my life and I didn't know it at the time but I walked into a little soccer and volleyball store, I was a very competitive soccer player, and the first day the owner gave me the keys to the store and a combination to the security code and put all his trust and faith in me from day one. It made me feel like I owed him something. It wasn't anything he said it was that he put so much faith in me that I felt like I had to prove to this guy that I was capable of.
By the time I finished college I was doing the books for the business, I was doing marketing for the business, I was doing things that 18, 19, 20-year-olds don't do and I always just loved the business side of it. My family is full of entrepreneurs, Dad, Aunts, Grandma, Grandpa. I was always messing around with that kind of stuff so it was cool. I worked full time through college in my junior and senior year and I actually was the first person in my family to graduate college ever. I did it in 4 years while working full time. I came out of college, I helped my Dad who was in the jewelry business. I helped him open a store, his first store out of town.
I left that business to go and spread my wings and learn about more businesses so I could come back to help him grow. I got into car sales because I always loved cars. I got into real estate so I always loved real estate. I actually started college as in architecture, University of Wisconsin- Milwaukee, is the number 2 architecture school in the country, at least it was when I was there. I did not have anywhere near the grades to stay in that school so I ended up with a Marketing degree and graduated in 4 years.
Alan: Well there are a lot of interesting elements there again. First of all for someone who was an engineer and I did not graduate in 4 years it was more like 4 1/2 which is so common. It's even more common nowadays. But also just a side note on my side of the story that I got divorced about 20 years ago and I have 2 kids who are now 28 and 32 but I was certainly very mindful of the impact that was having on them. I can understand from your perspective when your parents go through a divorce it's a real wrenching circumstance or the kids.
That certainly impacts things but it seems like you were very well served with all the entrepreneurial people and entrepreneurs in your family and so it seems like it's very natural you would inherit that and it would become a natural part of your interest in the directions you went. Like so many people that I have interviewed that are inventors very few of them went to work at a job for 10 years the same job.
Almost all of them had a circumstance where they had a huge curiosity and they would try something for a year or two, go to something else as you were doing. You were doing auto sales, you were doing real estate and other things. None of those things were ever wasted effort because they were all adding to your repertoire and developing you in the direction for someone who would be perfectly suited to be an inventor. Would you agree with that?
Rob: Yeah absolutely I loved real estate because it gave me the freedom to be able to do what I wanted when I wanted. The harder I worked the more money I can make. It's funny, I started when I was 25 or 26. I was one of the fastest people to ever get their real estate license in the state of Wisconsin. From the day I opened the first book to passing my test was 10 days. When I get my mindset on having to do something I certainly do it.
I loved real estate, I was young, my friends were buying 120 or 150, $200,000 houses and I'm working next to people whose friends are buying $800,000 houses. I'm doing the same amount of work probably more for a first time home buyer and getting paid a fraction of the money but the best year I had was the same year I bought a duplex and gutted the whole thing to the studs and remodeled it myself. I would work on that house and then when I needed to go I would go to work there and I learned a lot about how to manage time and juggle things and it just kept me interested. I always had something to do. I got to see new architecture and I was remodeling my house and tinkering with some other ideas that I had. The fuller my plate was the better off I was.
Alan: It sounds like you were very well served by that end. Another thing that I will say of every inventor that I have interviewed as well as myself is these people are never bored. You probably will encounter people who will say, especially those who work a 9-5 job, will just say oh I'm just bored I don't know what to do with my time. Trust me I have never had that as an issue. I bet you haven't either of oh what am I going to do I have 2 or 3 hours to kill. Have you ever been effective by boredom?
Rob: Not really boredom, there are times when I just need to decompress because there's too much going on and I have my ways of doing that. But I'll tell you the thing that I hate the most especially now that I've left home and I don't see my friends all that often. If I haven't seen you in 6 months and I say what's new and you say nothing. Oh my God, that just drives me crazy, that is the saddest thing. I hate when people say that, there's got to be something, you haven't done anything in 6 months that's exciting tell me something.
Alan: Yeah I fully agree. To me, it feels like life is all about doing something that matters. Whatever that is to you, it could be different for every person to do something that matters one, and do something that is bigger than you two. To me, that's what gives you a lot of joy and fulfillment and I think most inventors feel that way.
Rob: Yeah absolutely I agree.
Alan: So I kind of like to segway and chat a little bit about your product, The Million Dollar Collar. It finally solves the problem as I understand it: the problem of rumbled collars on dress shirts. Now men can wear a dress shirt without a tie and look classy, right? So what was the inspiration behind the product and then how did you first develop it?
Rob: So, looking back at it, it's the best marketing story ever but it was totally true. I got married on the beach in Jamaica 7 years ago, almost this week, almost to the day. So I got married on the beach in Jamaica. I've never really liked wearing a tie and so when we decided to get married I had no shoes on, my toes were in the sand and a tieless dress shirt. So I walked out with my brand new freshly pressed shirt and within 30 minutes it was just a crumbled mess and I remember tugging at it all day and if you go on my website on the about section there is a photo of my wife with the most disgusted look on her face. My shirt all crumbled and looking terrible.
It wasn't staged and she's probably looking down at something. The photographer just happened to catch the most perfect photo ever. I looked at that photo and I thought .. This made me crazy, why is there no structure in the front of the shirt where the buttons and the holes are? Collar stays were invented in the 1880s and that hasn't been an issue since the collar has been fixed. Every solution seemed to be around the collar. I came home from Jamaica, I did a little google searching and I didn't see anything out there so I cut open a dress shirt, I shoved a piece of cardboard down the front and I showed my new bride. She said, OH my God I finally get what you've been frustrated with all these years.``
It started with cardboard and I knew that wasn't going to last and I actually took a photo recently of all the different prototypes that I had. It's amazing how the design changed over the months of designing. I ruined almost a100 dress shirts trying to figure it out. While I was going on that process I developed a universal … It's called the placket stay the part of the shirt with the buttons and the holes are the placket of a shirt. My product hides in between the two layers of the placket and once it's in the shirt it lasts for the life of it.
Alan: Well that is an interesting and amazing story especially how it all began with an event of joy which became one of frustration. I lived in Panama for 10 years so I do understand what humidity does. Humidity and dress shirts don't get along well together. I will tell you what you probably discovered just generally speaking. So that's such an interesting story and it also reflects that almost always when we invent something we're scratching our itch. It's something that bothered us and we're trying to solve that problem in the process recognizing that thousands or millions of others are frustrated with the same problem.
That's also interesting to understand that what differentiates your product from lots of products that have to do with stays and the collars etc is your perception or belief that the collar problem is largely solved and the placket and I never knew that was the name of that is often rumbled and doesn't even look that great. Even if you're wearing a nice dress shirt. Just so our listeners can get a little clearer picture of how your product works with an existing shirt? Does it have to be... can it be added to the shirt? Does it have to be manufactured as part of the shirt? How does that get installed?
Rob: So, it's a really, really simple thing. So, Million Dollar Collar is an aftermarket add-on and so what a person will do or what 20,000 people have done so far. They go to our website and buy 5, or 10, or 20 of these depending on how many shirts they have in their closet. The stays will come to them with instructions, in the beginning, people would just go to 1 or 2 or 5 tailors until someone would finally agree to do it even though the instructions were included. Now we have about 600 dry cleaners and tailors we work within the US.
You take your shirt in, every shirt is made exactly the same, there are always 2 layers in the collar band and there are always 2 layers in the placket. The tailor opens up 5 or 6 stitches where the collar band meets the placket slides my product in and it hides in between those layers and they sew it back together. When they sew it back together they sew right through the material that's what holds it in place. It rests between the edge of the shirt and the button or the hole depending on what side the shirt it's on and it just sits in there and gives structure to that front of the shirt.
Like you said placket, nobody knows what a placket is that's why we're not called perfect placket or something placket-y. We're Million Dollar Collar because who doesn't want to look like a million bucks.
Alan: Yeah I so wholly agree that's a fantastic name for a product because it rhymes and points to the area that's involved. I had another question that I believe you just answered and I was going to ask you. Are there other competitive products that work in a similar way? I suspect there's no other product that works in a similar way that what your product does. So are there any other products out there that actually work with the placket as well?
Rob: So nothing specifically with the placket other attempts have been made by companies such as Working Stiffs which are the magnetic collar stays and what those do you have a metal collar stay and a magnet that goes between the collar band and the collar stay and keeps the collar in but it doesn't keep the placket from collapsing. There are 2 other products that attempt to hold up the collar from the collar and try to prevent what I find is the problem. One is a metal scaffolding thing that goes up but doesn't look comfortable to wear. The other is a girls' one-inch thick plastic headband from the 80s without the teeth in it and that goes up under the collar trying to hold the collar up.
I've heard a lot of people complain that those products slip out from underneath the collar and it just looks funny. I know that mine and I"m the first to admit mines kind of a pain in the butt because you have to go to a tailor but once it's inside of the shirt the beauty is it’s always there. Like guys we're always rushing around waiting till the last minute, forget to put collar stays in or forget to pack socks when you're going out of town.
This is always in there you never have to think about it, you never have to worry about it, it's always there and it's never going to be showing, it's discreetly hidden within the shirt and it's absolutely worth the effort. I like to compare it to a car that's been in a wreck. Are you going to drive around with a smashed-up car or are you going to take the time, drop it at the body shop and have it all fixed?
Go through the process and I promise it's worth it on the backside. Even though my product has this extra step and going to the tailor we have nearly 5-star ratings. We're probably 4.5 or 4.6 across all the places that we sell our product. And the biggest complaint usually is it hasn't arrived yet.
Alan: That's fantastic because as somebody who has sold on Amazon and for that matter I sold on QVC etc. I know those 4.5 and 5-star ratings especially when you get hundreds or more buyers is a rare commodity. They quickly sink to 3.5 and I've seen products selling there at 2.5 or 3. They think, do I want to get a product that has that average rating? So, that's quite an accomplishment in itself I would say.
Rob: Yeah it's tough I mean you know I understand people get frustrated and you have a bad experience and you're more likely to write a bad review for a bad experience. The only thing I would say to all your listeners is if you got a bad experience with the company it's different then a product review. Shredding a product on any forum because of the experience isn't doing anybody any justice. Most of these guys like me, I work from a spare bedroom in my house, and Mom actually ships everything out of her house and we're a real small business and we're trying to do things. Those reviews really matter. So if you have a good experience give those guys the credit they deserve. Take a couple of minutes out of your day and do it. Yeah, it's fun, it's exciting, it's frustrating but that's the business and the life that we chose.
Alan:I want to ask you another sort of product development question. From looking at your website and chatting with you I understand you went through a rigorously, lengthy process getting the material perfected for the Million Dollar Collar. Was this a costly process and the other question is how did you keep the faith while going through all the trial and error that went with that? Can you describe that for us just a bit?
Rob: Yeah, absolutely. The process wasn't crazy expensive. The patenting process was insanely expensive. It was frustrating that I would think that I had what I needed and sometimes in life after you've done so many tests and tries and it's just good enough and fortunately my partner and my wife were like no this isn't good enough. You have to keep grinding, you have to keep pushing through.
I had a screen printing and embroidery business at the time so that kept me busy most of the days. At night and when I had some spare time is when I would tinker with it and perfect things. It turned out that the dry cleaning process was my biggest challenge. When they flash press your shirt at the cleaners they use 425-450 degree steam to do it really quickly because they're processing thousands of shirts. Any normal plastic on the market has a failing point at 250-275 degrees.
The last thing I ever wanted to do was sell you a product for $2 and me having to buy you a new $150 shirt that just didn't seem like a good business model to me in case my product failed. I really, really took the time to make sure the material was right, it wasn't going to ruin any shirt, I can now say with 275,000 units sold that I have ruined 0.00000 shirts from the product failing and the product melting to the shirt or destroying your shirt in any way.
It was really worth the 3 years in development to make sure I was covering my tail and replacing a bunch of shirts. Even though not everybody does dry cleaning, you'd hate to sell them a non-dry cleaning version and have it go to the dry cleaners and melt to the shirt. It was worth it.
Alan: That's an interesting story and it does reflect a couple of key things too. That you had through your wife and business partners others to keep you honest as it were so when you get frustrated and say, surely this is good enough you have someone else to check that opinion and say No I don't think it's good enough I think you need to stay with it. Also, I never knew that about dry cleaning, 425-450 degrees of steam which is pretty hot if you think about it. That must have driven a lot with your decision as to what kind of material can withstand that and also obviously laundering and everything else that a shirt goes through. It holds up to all of that is pretty amazing in and of itself and as you described this was a 3-year process but selling 275,000 units obviously you're doing a lot of things absolutely right.
That's quite an interesting story and I think it illustrates what I like to call for our listeners the 3 P's, Perseverance, Patience, and Persistence. You have to have all of those to be successful I would say.
Rob: Yeah, it would be so funny I thought I'd have it. I washed it, it worked, I dried it was great, I ironed it, everything is great. I'd go to the dry cleaner and I'm like oh God that shirt’s ruined. So the frustrating thing is when you see my product it doesn't look like a whole lot.
My God, there's 3 years of RND and we had to actually develop the material with a plastics company so it was rigid enough to hold up the weight of the color and soft enough to be sewn through and heat resistant enough to deal with the dry cleaners, and light enough that you don't even feel that it's in the shirt.
It is an insanely highly engineered piece of material that some of the comments we get from time to time... Oh my God, it's a piece of plastic that doesn't look like anything. I think that's the sign of good engineering, it doesn't look like much but it does exactly what it's supposed to do.
Alan: Right, truly an elegant product is not full of bells and whistles. It is designed to do what it needs to do and it needs to be built up for that but not above and beyond that otherwise the costs and everything else go up and pretty soon you have no profitability left. It has to meet the requirements but it doesn't have to be over-engineered for a product that's not affordable.
Rob: Yeah, exactly.
Alan: My next question for you is so based on what you've done so far what is next for the Million Dollar Collar? Do you have some other product ideas in the pipeline or do you see some product extensions for what you're already doing? What does the future look like right now at this point?
Rob: So the future for us is in a couple of different areas. One, as soon as I got my patent we went and made appointments with the Calvin Klein's and Perry Ellis's, Ralph Lauren's, and the Brooks Brothers of the world and went and talked to them. They said it seems like a decent idea I don't know. We had no proof of concept, we had no sales, we just had a patent and I started going after those guys right away. After getting their feedback we said alright let's prove the concept. In the last 4 years, we've sold those 275,000 units in 115 different countries. Now we have the proof of concept so going back to those big brands, going back to the men's warehouses of the world and some of the other brands out there and trying to get some big unit orders together that is our main focus right now.
Additionally, about a year ago my partner and my father and I decided that since we weren't getting traction with some of these brands and we heard of another brand that doesn't have proprietary technology but has built an extremely large fan base we decided to make our own shirt.
We recently launched late last year we launched our own dress shirt called goTIELESS. This is the first shirt designed to be worn without a tie, Million Dollar Collar is built in. It doesn't even have a top button, so that is how committed we are to a beautiful tieless shirt. It's available in 3 colors and it's amazing.
We got that, we're trying to license the technology to these big brands and continued our distribution plan. which is getting through dry cleaners and tailors since they see more dress shirts in a day than anybody. We've got our plates filled up, a billion shirts a year come to the US so there's a pretty massive market, we barely scratched the surface.
Alan: That's interesting and it also illustrates something that I like to point out sometimes you go through a process once and it doesn't work out and then you go prove your product out and you get a chance to get a second bite of the apple. So as you went to all the Calvins Kleins and Men's Warehouse and everyone else in the world when you were patented and didn't have any sales. That's when so often you're going to get it seems interesting but I wonder if it will really work.
When you can come back and say look here's our sales, this is what we've done we sold in 115 countries. Now you have a much more compelling story and a chance to go back and get a second bite at that apple and have a shot at licensing the product that could give you a whole new income stream so to speak. So I'd sort of like to transition as we move toward the close here. What advice would you give to a new inventor that's just starting out?
Rob: My advice for business and invention or anything along those lines, it's going to take a lot longer and a lot more money than you think but you have to stick with it. I am so stubbornly passionate about what I"m doing and I know what I've got. I know that I've got something great I don't care how many times I've heard no and it's getting be a ridiculous number that I've heard no but I know what it's done for my friends when I've done their shirts or when customers come back and they say it's totally changed my wardrobe, I feel more confident.
I challenge any of your people out there to look around for anybody wearing a dress shirt without a tie and see how the front of that shirt looks. See how sloppy it can be, stick with it. If you know you're on to something good keep proving the concept and take that feedback, and take that criticism if it's out there. Sometimes you get such tunnel vision that you think you're doing the right thing. Chances are you're just a little bit off track and don't be so personal about it. Nobody has all the answers. You can't do it alone, get the feedback, and keep moving forward.
Alan: Sounds like really great advice especially the fact that it's going to take longer than you expect. That was my experience with my thin wallet product. Also, I heard you say be open to criticism. A criticism I like to say believe it or not can be your best friend. You can take it with a grain of salt sometimes but people will give you criticism so maybe there is something in this that I need to look at. If they feel like this is true because sometimes people will criticize things that are actually not true but they perceive that's true.
So you think if they're perceiving that this is not a good product let me ask some more questions around that to find out why they're thinking that way and is there something I need to do in my communication to resolve that issue upfront. So if you listen to criticism and take it in one you can develop a better product in many cases and two you can develop new communications that you use with your customers as well. So, criticism even though no one likes it can be our best friend I would say in a lot of ways.
Also, you hear a zillion nos, part of what helps and you've experienced this is when you have a lot of customers. Your customers are loving the product that will help when you go and pitch it to somebody and again nay not really for this. Well, you know there are a lot of customers who do see this. That helps your spirits I would see would you agree with that?
Rob: Absolutely, I mean I think criticisms are the best things you can get and an ego bruiser sometimes but you have to listen. I was so focused on the costing of things and trying to save a little on material that I almost made this thing too short. They would have ended up with everyone looking like Travolta in the seventies and it just would not have been a good look. It took my partner and a few friends to say this is just not right. and so it's back to the drawing board and lengthen it. It was ultimately the right decision. If I wasn't open to hearing it I think we'd be in a whole different state right now.
Alan: I would like to finish by saying how can our listeners reach you if they have other questions? And for sure if you can point us to your website or any place they can buy the Million Dollar Collar and also within that can you give us an idea what the typical retail price is to buy it how that' packaged? This is your chance to sales pitch your product and be aware you may have some people reaching out and asking you questions and things because that is what we do with the podcast here. So if you could give us some of that information that would be great.
Rob: Yeah you bet. I'm totally open to any questions about the process or my product. My email is firstname.lastname@example.org, our website is milliondollarcollar.com. We're on Instagram and Facebook at Million Dollar Collar. We're also sold on Amazon if you need it quicker they can do a little bit faster shipping. There are discounts on our website that you won't get on Amazon. I think that's it.
Alan: The only thing I think I had is on a side note so people could see what they're looking at. What's a typical price point?
Rob: The price, depending on how many you buy. Our 5 pack, 5 shirts worth is $14. The most popular is our 10 pack which is $25 so $2.50 per shirt. When you go to your dry cleaner or your tailor or one of the guys on our map typically it will be $10 to get it installed into the shirt. You have about $12 or $15, a lot of the dry cleaners on our map. If you see one that says first shirt free they'll actually do an installation for the first shirt for free for you so you can try it out.
It's one of those products that as much as I explain it, it makes sense but until you wear a shirt with it built-in and installed in your shirt and you get complaints and feel better and you have a boost of confidence there's nothing like that. It's one of those game-changers, that's why these cleaners do the first one for free because they know you're going to come back with 20 more shirts and the rest of your closet. We have a map on our website, check it out and see if there's somebody nearby and if there's don't worry about it we have very detailed 3 step instructions that you can show to anybody. I want you to put this in my shirt. I know it's going to work. Anybody who has basic sewing skills, during this process I taught myself how to sew so I know how to sew it in, it’s that easier. The only thing that’s easier than my product is to put a button in.
A couple of bucks per shirt and another $10 to get it installed and if you're feeling adventurous you can grab a showing machine if you don't already have one and do it yourself. I have a bunch of guys come back and say I bought a sewing machine and I did it myself. Those are pretty cool. I got a new skill. I love this.
Alan: Rob that's fantastic that's great information our listeners now know how to get in touch with you and you've got great branding. Million Dollar Collar everywhere, you know email@example.com, milliondollarcollar.com. So it's going to be very easy for them to find you and you gave us some thoughts on pricing so they know what they're looking at there. I just want to close by saying thank you so much for sharing your time, your experience, your expertise, and your journey with our listeners today. Maybe we can touch base in another 6 months or a year and see where you are at that point. Once again thanks so much for being on the podcast today.
Rob: I appreciate it thanks for the time.